Designing the Perfect Patient Experience (and Making It Profitable)

What does it really take to build a dental practice around the patients who need it most?

In this episode of Just4Dentists, Dr Ruth Baidoo sits down with Dr Celia Burns, founder of Nothing But the Tooth — a practice built entirely around nervous and anxious patients. With nearly 40 years of experience, Celia shares how putting genuine patient care at the heart of everything she does has not only transformed the lives of her patients, but quietly built one of the most loyal and sustainable practices in the process.

In this episode, Celia covers:

• How she created a patient experience where nervous patients feel genuinely heard, safe and in control from the very first phone call
• The patient care coordinator model and why getting this right changes everything
• The small, low-cost changes any dentist or associate can make today to immediately improve how patients feel in their practice
• Why she ripped out the front of her building and replaced it with floor-to-ceiling glass — and what happened next
• The honest reality of running a time-intensive, people-first practice commercially

After the interview, Ruth is joined by Martin Febery (Money4Dentists) and Andrew Brown (Mortgages4Dentists) to explore how an experience-led approach translates into long term business sustainability — including pricing, investment and cash flow considerations for dentists thinking about building a similar model.

Whether you're an associate thinking about the kind of dentist you want to be, or a practice owner who wants to build something that genuinely makes a difference — this episode is for you.

Have a question or want tailored expert advice? 

📩 Email info@j4d.co.uk or visit www.j4d.co.uk

💬 Join the Just4Dentists Facebook community to continue the conversation: https://www.facebook.com/just4dentists

Presented by Dr Ruth Baidoo 

Produced by Your Podcast Producer Ltd for the Just4Dentists team

Additional Information:

Dr Ruth Baidoo: https://dr-ruth-dentist.com/

Nothing But The Tooth: https://www.nothingbutthetooth.co.uk/

Just4Dentists: www.j4d.co.uk

Your Podcast Producer: www.yourpodcastproducer.com

Disclaimer: The information provided in this podcast is for educational and informational purposes only and does not constitute formal financial or legal advice. Every dentist’s career pathway and financial situation is unique; therefore, you should not rely on this content as a substitute for professional advice tailored to your specific circumstances. The value of investments can go down as well as up, and past performance is not a reliable indicator of future results.

Transcript

Dr Ruth Baidoo 0:00

Hi, I'm Dr. Ruth Baidoo, a dentist who spent years figuring out not just how dentistry works, but how life as a dentist works. This series is all about the human stories behind the profession, the financial decisions, the identity shifts, the pressures, and the moments that define your career. We're gonna dive into money, mindset, career growth, and the practical realities of building a life in dentistry. And with the help of industry experts, we'll be breaking down what all of this means for your financial future. So whether you're just starting out, you're deep into your career, or simply trying to make smarter decisions for your future, this podcast is for you. Welcome to Just4Dentists.

Dr Ruth Baidoo 0:41

Hi everyone, welcome back to Just4Dentists. I hope that you've had a wonderful week. My week has been great, very, very busy. You know what it's like if you're working as a dentist in general practice. It's constant, but I've made it through. So today we've got Dr. Celia Burns on our episode today, and really, really looking forward to unpacking this episode with you guys. So a little bit more about Celia. Celia is a dentist who is the founder of Nothing But the Tooth, a practice known for the way it supports nervous and anxious patients and for putting patient experience at the heart of everything that they do. Celia's approach isn't about rushing through appointments or focusing on volume. It's actually more about giving the patients the time that they need, helping to build their confidence and helping people and patients who may have avoided dentistry for years finally feeling confident and comfortable about getting the care that they actually need. But designing this kind of experience doesn't just affect how patients feel, it also has real implications on how a practice runs. So in this conversation, we're talking about what it really takes emotionally, practically, and financially to build a community-focused, anxiety-aware dental practice that still works commercially. Let's get into the conversation. This podcast is for informational and educational purposes only. The views expressed by myself and my guests are our own and are provided this general expert guidance and industry insight. Because every dentist's circumstances are unique, you should always seek independent advice tailored to your specific situation before making any major financial decisions.

Interview with Dr Celia Burns

Dr Ruth Baidoo 2:08

So, hi Celia, how are you doing today?

Dr Celia Burns 2:10

I'm very well, thank you. How are you?

Dr Ruth Baidoo 2:12

I'm doing really well. Really looking forward to our chat today. Um, just because people might not know who you are, tell me a little bit more about you. Like who are you and why dentistry?

Dr Celia Burns 2:21

Well, I'm Dr. Celia Burns. I've been a dentist for nearly 40 years, and I always wanted to be a dentist because I wanted that connection with patients. I always felt that I know it's a cliche, but I wanted to be someone who actively helped, took a role in helping people in making their lives better. And I wanted dentistry, not medicine, because I knew I wanted general practice. And in dentistry, you really do get to do the whole journey, especially if you upskill and you can do various types of dentistry.

Dr Ruth Baidoo 2:53

Fantastic. So tell me more about your journey to becoming a practice owner. When did that happen for you? And what was kind of like the turning point? Was that always a dream of yours? You know, you mentioned you always wanted to become a dentist. Did that become attached to it, or was it a later thought as time went on?

Dr Celia Burns 3:08

No, I always wanted to uh to own a practice. I'm a bit of a control freak and I wanted to be able to run it the way I wanted it. I'd worked in several other practices, you know, mostly very good, nice practices, but they never had the package that I wanted that would be a sort of holistic package that would help people to find coming to the dentist a pleasurable experience. And so I didn't buy a practice immediately. I really didn't feel I had the um confidence or the knowledge to start with. And to be fair, I didn't have the time. I had three young children fairly soon after university. And I personally, for me, I felt I couldn't be a mother and a practice owner and do both really well. I'm sure there'll be other women out there who can, but it wasn't for me. So as a result, I wanted to get my children to secondary school age before I took on that extra burden of practice ownership. And that's what I did. I bought my practice when I was 45.

Dr Ruth Baidoo 4:12

So then what about the whole patient journey? What does that look like in your practice? So if somebody was to ring up today and say, hey, you know, I need to book an appointment because I'm pretty sure that I've got a cavity and I need a fill-in, for example, but I'm really anxious. Just talk me through how that process works in your practice.

Dr Celia Burns 4:27

So the first point of contact is reception, but we take the new patient calls off the reception desk. So I have a Patient Care Coordinator. Most people call them TCOs or treatment coordinators, and I've got a thing about that term because they're not coordinating treatment, they're coordinating the care that the patients need. So they're a Patient Care Coordinator, and that patient then has a link with that PCC, that patient care coordinator, and they're the person they can link with and ask questions to and so on. Because the PCC is on the payroll, the PCC can spend as long as we like with them on the phone, on Zoom. They can come in for an appointment, they can have a cup of coffee with her. We have people who've come in four or five times for free half-hour, hour-long chats with the PCC. Once they are then comfortable that they trust us enough and they like what they see enough, they can then come in and see the dentist. Some patients aren't like that. Some people say, no, I'm ready to see the dentist straight away. But when they do come in to see the dentist, the key thing there is building trust. Many, many people come in with the comment that, oh, I had a terrible experience years ago. I was telling them it was hurting and they just carried on. Or I was told, no, it can't be hurting, you've had an injection, you can't it you're making it up or you're imagining it. So we take as long as is necessary on the first appointment. We tell them before they even come in that if they don't want to sit in the chair, they don't have to sit in the chair. If they don't want to open their mouth, they don't have to open their mouth. And if they open their mouth, sit in the chair, open their mouth, and I'm looking and they want me to stop, they put their hand in the air and I will stop. And the key thing that we have to get over to them, and that everyone who works for me has to know, is that that signal is non-negotiable. Now, obviously, I do explain to people if I'm literally at a point where it will be dangerous for them for me to immediately stop what I'm doing, you know. But in general, you know, you can stop when a patient says stop. So once they've had that first appointment, we then work out what's right for them, what treatment do they need. Often they need lots of treatment. They've not been for 15 years because they're so anxious. And what you do is you stage it and you talk through with them how you stage it. You say, We do a comprehensive examination here. So we'll tell you everything that we feel you would benefit from, but that does not mean that's what you've got to have, and it does not mean it's what you've got to have now. And then we work with the patient and the patient care coordinator with a program that's right for them. And if it means that the first appointment for treatment they come back for is to polish their four upper teeth, that's fine. That's what the appointment is for.

Dr Ruth Baidoo 7:28

That's a really, really good approach. So it really seems and comes across that control is in the hands of the patient as opposed to it being the other way around, you know. But in that as well, let's talk about honestly about giving more patients more time and support. It potentially comes at a cost. So, how do you work that out in terms of like maybe getting into like the finance aspects of it, like the hourly rates and things of that nature and what it costs you to run your practice? Because it is a business at the end of the day. So as much as you want to give the best care possible, and I think as clinicians, we should be aiming for that. You're also running the business. So, how did you how do you find that balance without it feeling like it's heating the scale one side versus then the other?

Dr Celia Burns 8:09

Um, there's a few points to that. The main one is if we take an example of let's say you're providing implants and you want to advertise for implants, and then you get the patient in for their implants, that advert, pay-per-click, whatever, the cost per acquisition is going to be high. But the payoff because of this implant case is good. They're profitable treatments. I look at nervous patients the same way. My investment in them at the beginning is higher in time and money than it would be with a similar patient who wasn't nervous. But oh my goodness. Firstly, these patients become lifelong raving fans. They they tell all their friends and family, you stop needing to advertise at all because everybody tells it, you've got to go and see Celia, you've got to go to Nothing But the Tooth, you've got to go and see whichever dentist they saw. They're great. So if you think about it on a sort of 10-year period, because these people do, they stay. I've got people who drive down to me from Bridlington, from Exeter. I'm in the Midlands. I had one who used to come from France. Um, people will really make an effort to see you and you alone and will stay far longer than a non-nervous patient who moves away or is a little bit further out as a result. And so, because of that, over 10 years, even a patient that only needs to examine a couple of hygienes and the odd filling is going to be worth five, six thousand pounds to you. Someone who needs a big course of treatment or a couple of big courses, you're talking 10,000, 15,000. So spending an extra half an hour, hour, hour and a half at the start of your journey with them, massive return, massive return.

Dr Ruth Baidoo 9:58

So, like, how do you how did you, when you started off, how did you approach pricing when your care model is kind of time sensitive? Did you factor that in, or is that something that you've modified as time has gone on?

Dr Celia Burns 10:09

Well, when I started, um, I didn't have a PCC, so I did all of it myself. And I charged the same. The new patient fee is the same for everyone. Because some new patients, you know, nervous or not, take longer than others. It's just the fee is the fee. What I did do was if there were people who clearly just needed that little bit more time, that little bit more um consideration, is I would actually quote them a higher fee. If I knew I was going to be spending five hours with this treatment overall in total, and someone else would be three, I might well quote them 30% or 40% more than my normal fee. They don't know what my normal fee is in terms of I'm just I'm giving them a treatment plan with the fee on it. And I can say to them, as time goes on and you get more comfortable with treatment, the fee will be less because we won't need you to be here as long. But I don't want to rush you, I want to spend time with you, and therefore the fee for this will be a little bit higher than our normal fee. Um, I hope that's okay. I never had anybody quibble and I never had anybody say, Well, I'm not coming to you. Because someone by then, by the time you're looking at treatment, they've built a relationship with you, they trust you, they understand that you're doing this for them, you're not just overcharging them. Um and yeah, I never had anyone say, Oh, that makes a difference. That extra 30 pounds, now it's not 100, it's 130, or now it's not 500, it's 600. Never had anyone say, I'm not doing it.

Dr Ruth Baidoo 11:49

It sounds like, I mean, I've not even been to your practice, but it sounds like it's working, like your ethos and the care that you input, it's working and it's working tremendously. So if there was a dentist who wanted to improve their patient experience, like say they own a practice, but feel a bit stuck in a high pressure environment, what kind of tips and tricks would you give them from your experience that could help sort of revolutionize that?

Dr Celia Burns 12:11

I mean, if I I can tell you various things, some of which are very inexpensive to set up and some of which take a huge amount of capital investment and obviously won't be for a um won't be for an associate. Small things, smile, get the patient from the the reception area yourself, introduce yourself, use your name, use their name. Very early on, ideally before they get into your chair, make sure they're aware that they're in charge. That costs nothing. So if you've got a patient care coordinator, and I would urge you if you can afford to get one in to get one, because you'll get a return on that hundreds of times over. But even if you haven't, ask your reception desk to ask in their triage of new patients, are you a nervous patient? Are you anxious about dental treatment? And if they say yes, then say to them, that's wonderful, you've come to the right place. Can I just tell you that you will be king here? If you don't want the dentist to do something, they won't do it. If you want them to stop doing something, they'll stop doing it. You don't have to worry. And also offer them a chance to come in and sit either with the PCC or at reception. Just come into reception. Come and watch, you know, come and watch people come and go. Come and see how we interact with our patients. You'll get a feeling for how people like to come here. Um, equipment and things like that. You can you can give people stress balls. Some people they get the old white knuckles, you know. Um, give them a ball to hold, a stress ball, people like that. A warm blanket over their um legs that helps them feel comfortable, uh, comfortable chairs. We used to give people hot towels to freshen up with. The hot towel machine company went out of business and we're still searching for another one because people loved our hot towels. And then moving up a little bit, there's there's investment you can make. So even as an associate, there's the wand and the quick sleeper. The wand is a computerized local anaesthetic um delivery system. We don't actually use it for reasons that, you know, too long for this podcast. But um we have people do ring up sometimes say, Do you have the wand? And if your technique with your local anesthetic, you know, you get feedback that they're a bit uncomfortable when you give injections. The wand will really help you. And then the quick sleeper is an intra-osseous, which has superb anesthetic. So that if you've got someone with a hot pulp, someone who's in a lot of pain, you can give this anesthetic and you can be so confident they are 100% numb. So you don't really want a nervous patient even having a twinge, and this the quick sleeper helps with that. Um, so that's something that an associate could invest in. They're they're not cheap, you know. I think from memory, they're sort of five, five, six thousand pounds. But if you focus on making sure people are aware of it and refer patients to you for it, there is a return there. And then the final thing, which I think's made a huge difference, is I ripped out the front of my building and I put in floor-to-ceiling glass. And the idea for that, and I've had people comment on it, I did it 14 years ago, and people still say, firstly, they didn't know there was a dental practice there because we had a brick wall with frosted windows. And secondly, and this is the key, they say, I was able to come in because I could see how nice you looked. So if you've got a door and no window they can see in, they don't know who's behind it. And it takes, I I find this. If I'm going to a shop or an accountant's or whatever, if there's a door and I can't see who's behind it, I'm thinking, do I go in? Is there someone there? Am I allowed to open the door? Whereas ours looks like a shop front. And so we do have a little bit of it's it's what I call clever frosting, because it's not just frosting, around at head height, so that people who are in the building don't feel fully exposed, obviously for patient privacy. So what we did was we got quotes from our reviews and we got them done in frosted transfers. So they say things like, relaxing, this is so comfortable. And we put this frosting on in different size lettering around at head height, just so that people have a little bit of privacy. But yeah, definitely if you can make it so that even if your door, you change your door from a wooden one to a glass one, people can see in. And you'll get more patients generally, not just more nervous ones.

Dr Ruth Baidoo 16:42

I think that is so novel. I mean, I'm sure I've seen some dental practices with that, but not enough, if that makes sense. Just in, you know, I've been qualified 10 years, and I'm thinking of places that I've worked and things like that. None of the places that I've worked have ever had a door like that. But just the thought of it makes sense, yeah, because you can see, and so even if you're in the car and you're driving past, like it's just that being aware, oh, something's going on in there, you know, yeah, and can draw attention. So that's a really, really good tip. Really good tip. Thank you so much. Any last tips and trips and advice that you want to give to anybody who might be listening to the podcast?

Dr Celia Burns 17:15

If you do feel you want to treat nervous patients, there is nothing I've done in my career from wisdom teeth extraction for people in pain, from smile makeovers from braces, there is nothing that has brought me the patient response that looking after nervous patients has brought me. So if you want to do it, do. You'll be, you'll never regret it.

Dr Ruth Baidoo 17:39

It was

Ruth's Interview Reflections

Dr Ruth Baidoo 17:40

really great having a chat with Celia and learning more about her practice and how she really spends her time and her focus when it comes to her patients. You can really tell that she's someone who's a people person and puts her patience at the centre of her practice and everything that she does. And that's just was evident in our conversation. It was evident in how much time and effort she spent in actually building up this practice from where it started to where it is now. And I think that's also really, really great. It's great when you get people who are not just in it for the sake of the business, but also in it because they actually love being around people. And that's one of the things that I really, really enjoyed about our conversation.

Ask The Experts [with Andrew Brown and Martin Febery]

Dr Ruth Baidoo 18:17

So Celia's approach puts patient experience and trust right at the centre of her practice, but that also raises big questions about time, capacity, and financial sustainability. So now I'm joined by our financial experts to look at how a people first model translates into business reality, from pricing and profitability to managing a slower appointment time without burdened out or putting pressure on cash flow. This is general guidance rather than tailored financial advice, but it will help you think about how different clinical philosophies can shape your financial future. To help us break down the commercial side of experience-led dentistry, I'm joined by Andrew Brown, who's the director and mortgage broker and mortgages for dentists, and Martin Febery, who's the principal advisor and money for dentists. Hi guys, how are you guys both doing?

Martin Febery 19:00

Yeah, really good, thank you.

Andrew Brown 19:01

Yeah, very well. Very much enjoyed listening to Celia's story.

Dr Ruth Baidoo 19:05

Definitely. Same here. I was just about to say. Martin, I'll start with you. So Celia mentioned something here about her cost per acquisition for a nervous patient. It's quite high because of all the free chats and the time that she's actually given a lot of these patients that are coming to her practice. Um, so from a business planning perspective, how should a principal calculate whether the upfront time cost is actually delivering a return on the investment?

Martin Febery 19:27

Yeah, I mean, it was really great, really interesting. Um, what a great way to differentiate yourself. Patient care coordinator is absolutely brilliant, perfect. So, key is to stop thinking about those early conversations with the PCC as sunk time. They are relationship building investments. Um, and you see this kind of stuff in a lot of different types of business. It's not so common in dentistry, but it's actually great. So the upfront cost of acquiring a nervous patient is higher. There's more admin and more staff time and longer appointments. But if that patient stays with a practice for 10 or 15 or 20 years, as she said, the lifetime value it far outweighs the early spend. So you would start to measure return on investment by tracking things like retention and treatment acceptance rates and even word of mouth referrals from that cohort. If your patient joins on a chat first basis and goes on a complete course of treatment, joins a plan or brings their family in, that's an excellent return. So I think it's a really good investment and it's treating a dentistry like a proper business.

Dr Ruth Baidoo 20:29

Agreed, yeah, definitely. So Celia was very open about charging a higher fee, sometimes 30 to 40% more for time-intensive treatments. And this is done to ensure that the business stays viable. So for dentists listening who are worried about pricing themselves out, what is the financial risk of not adjusting your fees when your model shifts away from high volume?

Martin Febery 20:49

Interesting. We've talked about the other the flip side of this. Um and as we said, it's actually more risky not to adjust your pricing. If your clinical time is being used on fewer patients, but you're charging the same as before, your margin's gonna get squeezed very quickly, especially if you've got rising costs across the board and you know all the things we keep seeing. So we've got to think about the business model. Most nervous patients aren't price shopping. They're not comparing five local dentists to see it's gonna be 20 quid cheaper. They're choosing someone who makes them feel safe. If you've built that trust and you've created a calming, bespoke environment, you should charge appropriately. So it's underpricing just to say busy is is the way not to go. It's the attract to burnout. So actually it's it's essential to think about your pricing in terms of the service that you're actually offering.

Andrew Brown 21:44

Yeah. I remember probably twenty five years ago, I saw a graphic which basically it's really simple. It had three circles. One was quality, two was the cost to deliver the service, and then three was your profit. And if you can imagine. Imagine three circles that kind of overlay and meat in the middle, that would be like the holy grail for a business. You would be delivering top quality at a low cost and making lots of money. And basically, what the graphic said is it's impossible. It's like it's really, really hard to do that. 25 years on, I think I do subscribe to it. I try to do that with my mortgage brokerage, have quality which is unquestionable, and I'll never deviate from. And that's why I think I really love, I've never met Celia, but I'd love to meet her because she's exactly how I like to run my business, is delivering a top quality. Um you need to be profitable and but at a cost that people can afford. And what I've realized is that you do need to charge a value for the services that you're delivering. And consumers or patients, they probably don't expect to go to a dentist who's got, in in Sealer's case, 40 years' experience and pay a knockdown price to have some work done and the experience that goes into that practice and how it's all presented. I think consumers don't mind paying for a good quality service that's reliable. And therefore the equilibrium can all work for all the different stakeholders involved. But trying to do low cost, high quality, and make money, I'd be really careful about that. 25 years on from seeing the graphic, I agree with the graphic. It's really tough. I'm not saying it's impossible, but I feel that's going to be really, really tough to achieve.

Dr Ruth Baidoo 23:32

I think from experience, there are some patients that I see who they openly say they are shopping around. And this is for more higher price ticketed treatment items. They will shop around to try and find the best deal. But there are some who are openly say, Oh, you know, I'm going to get a quote elsewhere, but do end up coming back because they see the level of care and the attention. So I think that, like you've said, there is definitely a balance between people want to try and get the best value for money, but at the same time, you don't want value for money to be treated roughly. You know, you've got to try and find some sort of balance with that. So, like you said, consumers or our patients, if you will, are very mindful about who they're giving their money to, but also the rapport and the care and the trust that they're going to get because they're buying into a person, they're buying into the practice as well. So it's all multifaceted, definitely.

Martin Febery 24:17

Yeah, and it's getting that perceived value across because you will find most consumers don't mind paying for something that they value. Yeah. And um with dentistry, most of the value you would expect after the transaction. Um and it's important, and I think Celia's got this, to make sure that everyone perceives it before it's there. So they see that they've got a PCC looking after them brilliantly. They've got the right kind of environment that they're going into, and they feel that there's value coming their way.

Dr Ruth Baidoo 24:55

For sure, definitely. So some things that Celia's done, she's implemented, she's made some big financial changes to her practice, you know, which for example, so she's invested in like the wand or the quick sleeper to kind of make um anxious patients a little bit more uh at ease with having the treatment done, especially with having anesthetic. Or actually, one of the things I really like that she's done, she's implemented like a glass shopfront, which I thought was quite novel when she explained it. Um, but all of these things cost money. So, my question to you is when a dentist wants to invest in experience-led equipment or major renovations like Celia has done, what are the best ways to fund it without choking the practice's cash flow?

Andrew Brown 25:34

Yeah, well, I guess Celia's got 40 years experience, and um, you don't have to do everything all at once, is the first thing. There's lots of different things you could do to try and attract new patients. Um, obviously the shop front's pretty extreme, um, but there's lower cost items that you can trial as well. And it could be about your website, it could be your interior decor, it could be your booking system, it could be out of hour out of 9 to 5 um appointments available. It could be to do with the package of how you sell, uh, maybe a monthly subscription, etc. So there's lots of different levers that you've got. Um, the building, that's obviously a big one because there's a cost there. Um the good news is you can spread that cost usually. Improvements to buildings, um, some accountants might spread that cost over the remainder of your lease, for instance, or if you own the building over 10 or 15 years, depends what accounting principle you do. Standard would be five years. So potentially in terms of your PL, it's not necessarily gonna hurt your profits, those big capital investments in the building, but it is gonna be an impact on cash flow. So you have to, yeah, I guess some of it's using a bit of intuition. Like, is this gonna work? Have we seen it work elsewhere? Maybe get feedback from other dentists in your network. When you hear Celia say it and describe it, it seemed like a no-brainer to me. It's easy to say afterwards, but yeah. Clear she's seen an uptake in patients. But you've also got to think about when you're making improvements of measuring as well. Um, so in my equivalent world, which is mortgages, and when clients approach my business, is well, how did they find us? And we store that in our system so we know which lead sources are effective.

Dr Ruth Baidoo 27:14

Fantastic. I think we've really highlighted so much that Celia brought to the table in our conversation, just the importance of the changes that she's made and the financial implications it's had and the benefits too, and also in regards to understanding the reason why she's implementing people like her PCC and how critical that is to the success of her business. So thank you so much for your input. It's been really appreciated.

Martin Febery 27:35

Great, thank you.

Andrew Brown 27:36

Thank you.

Dr Ruth Baidoo 27:38

Before we wrap up, let's highlight the key financial takeaways from today's conversation. Takeaway number one, building trust is crucial. Time spent with patients now can form loyalty, increased treatment uptake, and referrals, which is invaluable for any business. Takeaway number two,

Top Takeaways

Dr Ruth Baidoo 27:54

charge accordingly for your time. Longer appointments without adjusting fees could quietly erode profitability, so your pricing must reflect that. Takeaway number three, phase, measure, and track. Trial improvements, measure changes, and track feedback so you can see what's actually delivering a return. You don't have to do everything at once, but making small changes and measuring them can make a big, big impact. A huge thank you to Dr. Celia Burns for sharing the heart and the reality behind building the practice around anxious and nervous patients and what it truly takes to deliver that kind of care. And thanks to my financial experts, Andrew Brown and Martin Febery. If today's conversation has got you thinking about your own patient experience or the kind of practice that you want to build, I'd really love to hear from you. You can email me directly with your questions or even ideas for future episodes at ruth at j4d.co.uk. And you can also keep the conversation going inside the Just4Dentists Facebook community group, where dentists are sharing experiences, asking honest questions, and learning from each other. You'll find today's show notes and extra resources from today's episode on the Just4Dentists website. And if you're enjoying the podcast, which I hope you are, make sure you're following, and a quick rating or review really helps more dentists find these conversations. Can't wait to see you in the next episode. Bye.

Dr Ruth Baidoo 29:12

You've been listening to Just for Dentist, presented by me, Dr. Ruth Baidoo. Just4Dentists is brought to you by the Just4 Dentists team, experts who are proud to provide dental professionals with the right insights to navigate the financial and business decisions dental school didn't teach us. For more resources, insights, and tools to help you get the most out of your career, head over to www.j4d.co.uk